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Re: Bronze QSA's for black soldiers in Natal 9 years 10 months ago #7932

  • Brett Hendey
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Hi Henk

That is great news about Maphalala's paper and I will try to get a copy. It is presumably based at least partly on the PMB Archives' records that I have been looking at. Hopefully, there will be a lot more. You are due another big 'thank you', Henk.

In the meantime, I did a cursory comparison between the list provided earlier by Frank and the Samuelson list. Of course, it turns out to be complicated. Names of some of the Chief Native Scouts identified by Samuelson are not on the W100/301 medal roll, some names may be there with Zulu rather than 'Christian' names, some definitely are on both lists, and then there are uncertainties with spelling of names. It would be best for me to complete the Samuelson list in alphabetical order and then get a copy to Frank (if he agrees) to make a direct comparison of the problematical entries.

It is worth repeating here that the Native Scouts claim was for the silver QSA, while the expectation was that the bronze medals were for "drivers etc who were not Scouts". Also, the Zulu Scouts were already being assembled in August 1899 and, as spies, they were in position by the time the war started.

Brett

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Re: Bronze QSA's for black soldiers in Natal 9 years 10 months ago #7955

  • SWB
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Hello Brett

Congratulations on you recent discoveries, I look forward to your seminal paper on the subject.

Regards
Meurig
Researcher & Collector
The Register of the Anglo-Boer Wars 1899-1902
theangloboerwars.blogspot.co.uk/
www.facebook.com/boerwarregister

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Re: Bronze QSA's for black soldiers in Natal 9 years 9 months ago #7961

  • Frank Kelley
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He agrees, and would also be more than happy to trade weather with you, orchid collection is suffering! :(

Brett Hendey wrote: Hi Henk

That is great news about Maphalala's paper and I will try to get a copy. It is presumably based at least partly on the PMB Archives' records that I have been looking at. Hopefully, there will be a lot more. You are due another big 'thank you', Henk.

In the meantime, I did a cursory comparison between the list provided earlier by Frank and the Samuelson list. Of course, it turns out to be complicated. Names of some of the Chief Native Scouts identified by Samuelson are not on the W100/301 medal roll, some names may be there with Zulu rather than 'Christian' names, some definitely are on both lists, and then there are uncertainties with spelling of names. It would be best for me to complete the Samuelson list in alphabetical order and then get a copy to Frank (if he agrees) to make a direct comparison of the problematical entries.

It is worth repeating here that the Native Scouts claim was for the silver QSA, while the expectation was that the bronze medals were for "drivers etc who were not Scouts". Also, the Zulu Scouts were already being assembled in August 1899 and, as spies, they were in position by the time the war started.

Brett

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Re: Bronze QSA's for black soldiers in Natal 9 years 9 months ago #8050

  • Frank Kelley
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Good morning Brett,
I have now enjoyed reading this thread from its begining, which I had not done until yesterday, on the subject of silver medals, I suspect you might be interested in these two gentlemen, both of who, would fit into your collection, very well indeed I think.

It is worth repeating here that the Native Scouts claim was for the silver QSA, while the expectation was that the bronze medals were for "drivers etc who were not Scouts". Also, the Zulu Scouts were already being assembled in August 1899 and, as spies, they were in position by the time the war started.

Brett[/quote]

When I was a boy I became very interested in Natal, as you will, I think have realised after our email exchanges since I joined this forum last year, intelligence matters have always been a favorite of mine.
Whilst doing some research, as a young boy, into the Imperial Guides, a name that appeared time and time again was that of Lieutenant Colonel Sandbach in his capacity as Assistant Adjutant General for Intelligence Natal.
In 1899, the future, Major General Arthur Edmund Sandbach was a Lieutenant Colonel on the staff of Lord Curzon, he was in fact, the Viceroy's Military Secretary before the war and then took up his new position in Natal.

Anyway Brett, he appears to have brought a couple of his own trusted team out to Natal with him, I think you would very much like to have these two medals, I have often wondered for many years if they still exist, I'd love to bag them for my collection!
Regards as always Frank








The remarks in the Lt Colonels own hand;
"Both these men were sent from India with Lt Colonel Sandbach, then Military Secretary to the Viceroy and served in the Natal Campaign"
"It is requested that the medals with clasps may be sent to His Excellency The Viceroy, Simla, India for distribution"
A E Sandbach Lt Colonel.




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Re: Bronze QSA's for black soldiers in Natal 9 years 9 months ago #8055

  • Brett Hendey
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Hi Frank

I am pleased that you have taken an interest in this thread. The subject is like Topsy and keeps growing.

The two medals you have identified would indeed be treasures in any collection, but especially mine in view of my current obsession. The person who is likely to know if they are still extant is David Grant and I hope he sees your post and can report positively on them.

Since I last posted on this topic, I have obtained a copy of the paper by Professor Maphalapa referred to by Henk. The section of this paper dealing with the medal issue was based largely on documents in the files of the Governor and Prime Minister of Natal and their meeting with the leaders of the Scouts. I have not seen them. Maphalala ends his account with the following:
"Realising that the whole question [of silver and bronze medals] had become an instruction, the Zulu scouts accepted the bronze medals."

While it is clear that, in fact, most of the scouts received no medal, there is a possibility that some bronze medals were issued, since Maphalala's paper also includes this statement:
"...... even the bronze medals were to be limited to 100 or less."

In one of his earlier posts, David indicated that, after the transfer of medals from South Africa to India, only a small number could have remained behind. Perhaps there were indeed "100 or less" distributed locally.

Another development is the discovery of a chapter entitled 'The war experiences of Natal's "Loyal" Africans" by John Lambert in the book, 'Writing a wider war', which was published in 2002 by the Ohio University Press (ISBN 0-86486-607-0). I have ordered a copy of the book in the hope that, like Mapalala's paper, it will add useful information to this investigation.

Regards
Brett

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Re: Bronze QSA's for black soldiers in Natal 9 years 9 months ago #8056

  • Brett Hendey
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As anyone would know, but clearly the computer involved in filing my post on the forum does not, the ISBN number is NOT a telephone number.

Brett

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