TOPIC:

Hello Phil,
If you read my post again, you will see that I actually said "The one thing I am confident of is that particular medal was not issued from the mint like it is now"
and I stand by that statement, because anyone can see it is indeed the case, I did not say it was "NOT" issued from the mint, moreover, as an example of a QSA to a Kiwi, it is worth having, all the more if it is not a replacement, as they are really quite scarce medals.

I feel that I should make it quite clear to you both that I have NOT looked at this mans papers, only the medal rolls, so I cannot and indeed have not been able to comment further.

Also, I have not looked at this thread since yesterday, moreover, reading through it today, I think that you have both hit the nail on the head regarding naming, from my experience medals were named from the rolls from which they were actually issued, so if any give man is shown on a page that is headed Rough Rider's or RR after New Zealand or NZ etc, then that is usually how the man's medal was named.

I wish to thank you both, because until now, I had not given it very much thought, to conclude, I would say that ANY QSA issued to ANY man of ANY of the New Zealand contingents is well worth having, moreover, I am sure that I have made that last point before on here!

Kind regards Frank

NZMR wrote: Hi Stephen,

There is nothing wrong with the naming on this medal, aside from the extra engraved embellishments. It is named in the correct style and form for this company of the 4th Contingent. Medals to 7 and 8 Companies used 'NEW ZEALAND M.R.', whereas medals to 9 and 10 Companies used 'NEW ZEALAND R.R.'. You say yourself that the medal to Olive (1452) is in the same style as this one, so do you think that one is a replacement too? I simply can't see why you and Frank beleive this to be suspect - the numismatic evidence suggests the opposite.

There is nothing on his file issueing a replacement, nor is there anything on the medal roll about a replacement. Where are you reading something about a replacement on discharge papers? Chronologically, the last piece of paper on his file is the NZDF's request for a stat. declaration and a postal order for a replacement. All coomunication stops thereafter.

I would suggest/guess he has lost it and tried to claim a replacement. Once faced with the cost and requirement for statutory declaration, perhaps he lost interest?

Frank: Can you explain why you believe this medal was not issued from the mint? How can you tell?

Bottom line - this medal is genuine, although I am listening if there is persuasive argument to say otherwise!

Cheers
Phil

Dear all,

Sorry to enter this thread late but this medal is very interesting and links into some previous threads on Royal presentations.

The Duke of Cornwall and York did a colonial tour on H.M.S. Ophir in 1901 and presented medals to some returned veterans, including to 150 New Zealander's of various contingents on 19 June 1901 at Wellington, as is noted against Houghton's name on the nominal roll on page one of this thread.

As you will see from the attached contemporary newspaper report the medals were presented by H.R.H. WITHOUT clasps. Given that the clasps are not attached to the medal it would appear that this is the medal presented in 1901.

One can only presume that Houghton was not chuffed, as a proud Rough Rider, that his medal had been named as 'N.Z.M.R.', therefore he had 4th N.Z.R.R. privately added.

Best wishes,

Justin

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/papers...618.2.39&srpos=95&e=

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100--1----0rev.+francis+j.+usher--

Excellent Justin!
I need to buy this medal!
Regards Frank

That is a very interesting article Justin. It is clear that those medals were issued without clasps. In saying that I note Houghton was not listed in the article as one of the returned NZMR attending that ceremony. Would have been like recieving a toffee apple without the toffee!!

Indeed!

The newspaper themselves admit that the list was incomplete. For me, the proof of the pudding is in the annotation to the roll 'Issued at Wellington 19 June 1901'.

J

Stephen,
As Justin points out and as I have shown, there is a note in WO100/232 that Houghtons medal was issued on that very day in Wellington, given that information, I think that I would, perhaps, put my hand in my pocket if I were you, not a recommendation, just a thought!
Regards Frank

Stephen Bayley wrote: That is a very interesting article Justin. It is clear that those medals were issued without clasps. In saying that I note Houghton was not listed in the article as one of the returned NZMR attending that ceremony. Would have been like recieving a toffee apple without the toffee!!