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Medals to the ASC 2 years 3 months ago #72327

  • Lubbock
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Is it for sale ?

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Medals to the ASC 2 years 3 months ago #72331

  • djb
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Yes, it will be auctioned on 12 November.

www.dnw.co.uk/auctions/catalogue/lot.php..._uid=381756&search=1
Dr David Biggins

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Medals to the ASC 2 years 3 months ago #72334

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Ok thank you
Kind regards
James

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Medals to the ASC 2 years 1 month ago #73822

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Picture courtesy of DNW

Sudan (T/7346 Sgt. C. M. Taylor. A.S.C.);
QSA (3) Cape Colony, Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith (7346 Co. Sgt. Maj. C. M. Taylor. A.S.C.);
1914-15 Star, erased;
BWM and VM with MID oak leaves (Q.M. & Capt. C. M. Taylor.);
Army LS&GC E.VII.R (7345 S. Sjt: Maj: C. M. Taylor. A.S.C.);
Khedive Sudan (0) (7346 Sergt., C. M. Taylor A.S.C.);
Russia, Order of St. Stanislaus, 3rd Class breast badge, by Eduard, St. Petersburg, gold and enamel, β€˜56’ gold mark on eyelet

MID LG 5 June 1919. β€˜In recognition of distinguished and gallant services during the period from 1st October, 1918, to the 1st March, 1919. (Milne, C-in-C. Salonika)’

Charles Matthew Taylor, Company Sergeant-Major, 27th Company, A.S.C. was invalided to England from South Africa on 2 June 1900. Appointed a temporary Quartermaster with the honorary rank of Lieutenant in February 1915 (LG 6 February 1915); advanced to Honorary Captain in February 1918 (LG 12 March 1918. As a Lieutenant in the Royal Army Veterinary Corps he entered the France/Flanders theatre of war on 16 April 1915. For his service in Salonika during October 1918-March 1919, as a Quartermaster and Temporary Captain in the R.A.V.C., he was mentioned in despatches.

Taylor was additionally awarded the Russian Order of St. Stanislaus 3rd Class. Captain Taylor relinquished his commission on the completion of his service, whilst retaining his rank, on 29 September 1920 (LG 12 April 1922).
Dr David Biggins
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Medals to the ASC 2 years 1 month ago #74039

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Perhaps this post should be titled "No Bar Medals to the ASC"? In any case, ABW medals to the ASC are reasonably available from time to time and are a reminder - if any were needed - of the organisation and hard work necessary to keep an army in the field; then and now.


(1) QSA no bar to "Condr: W.M.Geoghegan. A.S.C."
(2) KSA no bar to "296 Condtr: W.M.Geoghehan. A.S.C."
(note the surname spelling on the KSA. As "Geoghegan" is shown on the QSA roll, that spelling is used here).

The illustrated pair came into IL's custody quite a few years ago and immediately raised a question re the eligibility of the recipient for clasps. For a number of reasons, at the time IL could not access the rolls on-line and even when he could, the limited search was not fruitful. As things were really heating up at work, it seemed best to set the bar-less ASC pair to one side (together with quite a few other additions to the collection) for future investigation and research. As it turned out, working through that hoard became a Retirement project.
In the interim, the background to the award of a no-bar KSA to the ASC became highlighted by the discovery of an article published in the January 2009 edition of "Medal News" magazine; "The KSA and the Bar-less Conductors" written by Forum member Ryan Darby. A copy of the article was quickly obtained from the publisher and added to the appropriate file. The article is most interesting and Ryan has generously given permission to quote from it here.
Trawling through the ASC KSA rolls far more efficiently than IL, Ryan identified one hundred and six bar-less KSA medals awarded to various grades of Civilian Conductors and listed them. Happily, the listing confirmed the bar-less KSA shown here. In the MN article, Ryan explored the general concept of a Conductor during the ABW; pointing out that Civilian Conductors were quite apart from those of a similar rank in the ASC proper.
The Civilian Conductor was expected to have a local knowledge of the terrain, of the native languages and of Dutch and of the types of ox-wagon transport not found in the UK. Indeed, local advertising in SA in 1900 sought "white men with previous experience in the management of oxen and mules and the control of native subordinates" for such tasks.
When the bar-less QSA/KSA ASC pair finally came up for attention, matters were handed over to Kevin Asplin ([email protected]>) for research. Keven is an extremely thorough researcher and those who may have read some of this writer's earlier posts will know of IL's respect of him. Quickly provided, the relevant QSA/KSA roll pages (WO100/213 and WO100/350) confirmed our Conductor was a locally recruited civilian (address, East London) and indicated he had served with the ASC's 4th and 44th Coys. There were no other papers extant.
In the hope that one or other of those ASC Coys. had left behind a trace of their field activities, SAFF was quickly checked -to no avail. That source, however, does not always correlate ASC casualties with individual Coys. All was not lost, however - for the officer personally cognizant of our man's service on the QSA roll (Capt. E.Brooke) indicates that No.4 Coy., ASC served with Brigadier General Plumer's force in the Transvaal; at least during October 1901 when the roll was signed.
Both medal roll pages at hand indicate that the entries thereon were listed for clasps on their medals. Civilian Conductor W.M.Geoghegan might have looked forward to clasps "Cape Colony", Orange Free State" and "Transvaal" on his QSA and both date clasps on his KSA. Always assuming, of course, that he cared at all. However, Ryan speculates in his MN article that, when the medal rolls were submitted, the actual rules for clasps had not been formulated. And that even when they were, anomalies existed. In the case of the Civilian Conductors on page 36 of WO100/213 and page 320 of WO100/350, a firm official hand had struck out all clasp entitlements.
In summary, it has to be said that the ASC Conductor, civilian or enlisted, did not have an easy war. in the case of our man, the Transvaal in 1901 was a hot bed of activity , General Plumer was a hard driver, and the Conductor's war was one of long, strung out supply columns, with any straggling inviting raids or worse; with the pace of progress being such that any Conductor would become likely recipient of sarcastic comment from column commanders or their subordinates.
Minor rarity or not - and a bar-less KSA to a Civilian Conductor should fit that category - examples do not seem to attract a premium price on dealers' lists. Indeed, a recently listed bar-less QSA/KSA ASC pair very similar to that shown above, was priced at much the same level at that paid by IL all those years ago!
Thanks again to Ryan for the opportunity to plunder his MN article and bring it to attention of Forum members generally.
Regards to all for 2021
IL.
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Medals to the ASC 2 years 1 month ago #74041

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Many thanks, IL. We see so many 2 clasp QSAs that anything less is always worth further investigation.

This thread demonstrates the hard but little documented work of the ASC during the war.
Dr David Biggins

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