TOPIC:

The two Seedie QSAs sold this morning at DNW.

Amadi, Seedie., H.M.S. Forte, sold for a hammer price of £550. Totals (inc VAT for UK only): £708. R13,900. Au$1,250. Can$1,150. US$920

Robearn, Seedie. H.M.S. Philomel, sold for a hammer price of £280. Totals (inc VAT for UK only): £361. R7,100. Au$640. Can$580. US$470

Picture courtesy of Spink

QSA (0) bronze (42 Syce Emzal 17th Bl. Lcrs.).

Not on the roll as the name given but the closest there is is "12 Syce Fazal"
More on the 17th Bengal lancers can be found here
Post 15264 www.angloboerwar.com/forum/5-medals-and-...ngent?start=66#15264
here
Post 56870 www.angloboerwar.com/forum/5-medals-and-...gent?start=228#56870
&
www.angloboerwar.com/forum/search?query=...4/2021&childforums=1

This particular example has no "entitlement" to the King's Medal
ATB
David

Silver medals to Indians are scarce & I attach a list below

1st Madras Pioneers 1406 "Ward Orderly) Private Soobaroyan SA'02
This man was authorised for service in South Africa as a Bhistie on the 20th February 1900 at Ramgatore. He served chiefly in Queenstown until 11th August 1900 when he was discharged. He enlisted in the 1st Madras Pioneers as a sepoy on the 12th January 1901. A possible case of a bronze & silver medal double issue.

4th Madras Pioneers 3192 Private (Ward Orderly) Krishnasawmy SA'02

5th Madras Infantry 1249 Private (Ward Orderly) Daniel SA'02

9th Madras Infantry 2766 Private Abdul Sukoor CC;OFS;Tvl
1345 Havildar Syed Ali Tvl

15th Madras Infantry 1515 Havildar Khader Khan OFS;Tvl;SA'02
2244 Private (Ward Orderly) Khurasulu OFS;Tvl;SA'02

16th Madras Infantry 2150 Colour Havildar Thimnapah SA'02

24th Madras Infantry 2080 Private ( Ward Orderly) Shaik Mowla OFS;Tvl;SA‘02

28th Madras Infantry 2167 Havildar Veerasawmy CC;OFS;Tvl;SA'02

8th Rajputs Havildar Munesar Singh KSA
Arrived too late for Natal clasp. Died Gunshot Wound self inflicted Howick

2nd Prince of Wales Own Gurkha's 9429 Havildar Bahadar Gurung KSA

23rd Sikh Pioneers 3834 Sepoy Jagram Singh Tvl;DofL KSA


36th Sikh Regiment Infantry 468 Havildar Attar Singh KSA (Norman Collett ‘84 £70 & DNW 2013 £390) Arrived too late for Natal Clasp
168 Havildar Bhagwan Singh Tvl KSA

40th Pathan Regiment Bengal Infantry 1026 Havildar Abas Tvl;DofL KSA Possibly immigrant to South Africa
2186 Sepoy Azimullah Tvl;DofL KSA
240 Havildar Hazrat Shah DofL KSA
2355 Sepoy Muhammad Hasan Tvl;DofL KSA





The notation on the KSA roll refers to the Roll of the King's South Africa Madras Lancers & is self explanatory.





As yet I have not managed to find any detail on Sowar Shaik Mowla ( his name is spelt Mewla on the medal) other than this tantilizing snippet. So he may have arrived on the SS Bavarian with the remount staff in 1902. Any help would be appreciated..

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Queen’s South Africa Medal 1899-1902 (bronze issue) 11 Syce Karaimulla 13th Bl Lcrs.
ex Pakistan


The first contingent of the 13th Bengal Lancers escorted the donation of 30 horses by the Maharaja of Kashmir for services in South Africa. These drawn from the Kashmir Imperial Service Lancers, the Sate Bodyguard Cavalry & the State Horse Artillery. Other regiments to accompany the draft were 2nd Bengal Lancers, 9th Bengal Lancers,11th Bengal Lancers, 15th Bengal Lancers, 16th Bengal Lancers & 17th Bengal Lancers. Detaile: one duffadar, one farrier, one sowar & eight syce. Lieut-Cols Dawson & Biddulph accompanied the men.
It seems a second draft of 13th Bengal lancers, consisting of three farriers & 15 syces, was sent in 1902 ( from the clasps earned - "Transvaal" & "South Africa 1902" on the silver medals to the 13th Bengal Lancers) for service at remount stations in the Transvaal including Karaimulla.


An Indian detachment staffed a large remount camp in the valley in what is now Bezuidenhout Park. Up to 4 000 horses could be accommodated at Bezuidenhout Valley’s large central remount station. Indian troops camped in the valley on the south side of the ridge on which the Indian Monument was constructed.
From "The Sphere"

Maurice's Times History of the War in South Africa has this to say:

"A great opportunity for establishing a really first-rate military remount depot on a large scale in South Africa was lost at the end of the war. There was at first some idea of doing so, and at Bezuidenhout Farm, near Johannesburg, Colonel Gunning collected over 1,000 brood mares, picked from ten times that number, before the scheme was countermanded. Government stud farms, naturally on a smaller scale, were afterwards started by the agricultural departments of the new colonies."
"Of 158,000 animals which passed through the central Transvaal depot at Bezuidenhout Farm only two were seriously injured."
& "The establishment of sick horse farms was by now proving a great success and enabling some 3,000 horses monthly to be returned to duty. In November, Pretoria was abandoned as a depot and a new one was formed at Bezuidenhout Farm on the Rand. This depot was organized by Lieut. -Colonel C. Gunning, and consisted of twelve kraals surrounding an exercising track 25 yards broad and 1,000 yards round. It remained the central issuing depot for the Transvaal."

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Back in March 2016 I described the anomalous situation where the obverse of Edward VII precedes the obverse of his mother. Well I have another pairing. This time to 2637 Sowar Hazara Singh, 5th Punjab Cavalry. Again a Edward VII India General Service Medal, clasp "Waziristan 1901-2" paired with a Queen's South Africa Medal, clasp "South Africa 1902". ( This last medal was sold in the auction rooms of Messrs Morton & Eden two years ago) Looking at the roll for both cavalry units they are very similar - a few silver entitlements; the 2nd Punjab Cavalry, two & the 5th, four & some in bronze; the former seven & the later five. Both rolls for the bronze medals have the syces numbered 1-7 & 1-5 respectively. What I would like to propose now, is that details of both regiments left Waziristan in 1902 for Natal & that all should have the same medal & clasp entitlements. The question to the forum is what errand could these 18 men have? By chance I already have the bronze Queen's medal to 1 Syce Dhairoo, 5th Punjab Cavalry. Now I need to find his Waziristan Medal for a really special bronze pair.