TOPIC:

From "The South African War Casualty Roll Natal Field Force"

4947 Ford R Missing - Released Spion Kop 24 - 1 -00

Presumably from where Meurig sourced his data

Pete

Wow again. So many thanks for finding this.

I've just started on the Irish side of my family so as the Ford siblings were some born in Ireland and some born in England I'd left them alone for a few years.

The base info (family knowledge and my sketch tree on Ancestry) has been there for sometime. Over the past couple of years I'd been following an Irish based ancestry site to pick up tips on searching in Ireland before I started.

I have now identified/got certificates for all the births/deaths in England so Mum - Ellen Kelly, dad James Ford(e) and the 5 children, however I've not located a death cert for Robert as my info previously had ended on 24/1/1900 with the MIA Notice.

Robert's father James (death cert - 25/8/1909) served in the 101st Regiment, Munster Fusiliers and was based at Ballymullen Barracks, Kerry. He married Ellen Kelly on 16/11/1873 (I have the marriage records). Ellen died 5/1/1902 (i have the death cert).

I have the birth certs/records for all the children. I have the death certs for all but Robert:

James Patrick Ford(e) (18/3/1875 - Ballymullen, Kerry). Served with Lancashire Fusiliers, Salford Battalion during WW1. Reg No - 19570
Robert Ford(e) (5/5/1876 - Knocknahila, Ballyhorgan, Listowel, Kerry).
Mary Frances Ford (5/6/1877 - 48 Brighton Street, Salford)
James Ford (13/11/1880 - 30 Roy Street, Regent Road, Salford). My great grandad. Served with Manchester Regiment then Nottingham Labour Corps during WW1. Reg No - 606197
Margaret Ford (12/9/1882 - 113 Melbourne Street, Salford)
1891 Census - 59 Granville Street, Salford - Mum/Dad/All 5 children present.
1901 Census - 59 Granville Street, Salford - Mum/Dad, John, Mary, Margaret. Robert is in South Africa. I haven't found James yet.
1911 & 1921 Census - Mum/Dad deceased. All children (except Robert) located.

He is 4927 is this Newspaper Report.

shampers wrote:

Smethwick wrote: Hi. The only thing I had was this Ancestry info attached re MIA (I'd just always taken it as remains never found), along with the family story that he'd been killed in the Boer War. That story came from my grandma (his niece) to her 2 daughters (both late 80s now) then to me.

Thanks.

So 4947 came from a duff source - the Natal Field Force (NFF) casualty roll, which unfortunately is persisted on the internet by Ancestry, Fold3 and here.

When I started re-building the casualty roll my first reference were the two published rolls. Adding in POW data from The Times provided the first test of the accuracy of the published rolls. NFF was quickly revealed as a horrible source, I have updated 41% of the entries from NFF and added many new ones. See these blogs, " online casualties " and " Imperial Light Infantry at Spion Kop ".

Databasing the medal rolls provides a another cross-reference but also reveals discrepancies in service numbers, surname spelling and initials. Some are for the same man and other's its two men confused. It's gets tangled as we have seen.

Adding in service papers and newspaper references is great where they exist. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence.

What is published on The Register and FindmyPast is a synthesis of many sources (all referenced) weighing up the evidence, hence 4927 L Ford - to be changed in the next hour to incorporate the WO97 record - thank you Smethwick.

I have often been contacted by family historians searching for a relative who died in the war. In many cases no trace of death or even war service can be found. I checked Ancestry's Soldier's Effects and there is no 4947 Ford(e), Lancashire Fusiliers.

Sorry, Shampers but there appears to be no military or newspaper record to indicate what happened to your ancestor.

SWB wrote:

shampers wrote:

Smethwick wrote: Hi. The only thing I had was this Ancestry info attached re MIA (I'd just always taken it as remains never found), along with the family story that he'd been killed in the Boer War. That story came from my grandma (his niece) to her 2 daughters (both late 80s now) then to me.

Thanks.

So 4947 came from a duff source - the Natal Field Force (NFF) casualty roll, which unfortunately is persisted on the internet by Ancestry, Fold3 and here.

When I started re-building the casualty roll my first reference were the two published rolls. Adding in POW data from The Times provided the first test of the accuracy of the published rolls. NFF was quickly revealed as a horrible source, I have updated 41% of the entries from NFF and added many new ones. See these blogs, " online casualties " and " Imperial Light Infantry at Spion Kop ".

Databasing the medal rolls provides a another cross-reference but also reveals discrepancies in service numbers, surname spelling and initials. Some are for the same man and other's its two men confused. It's gets tangled as we have seen.

Adding in service papers and newspaper references is great where they exist. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence.

What is published on The Register and FindmyPast is a synthesis of many sources (all referenced) weighing up the evidence, hence 4927 L Ford - to be changed in the next hour to incorporate the WO97 record - thank you Smethwick.

I have often been contacted by family historians searching for a relative who died in the war. In many cases no trace of death or even war service can be found. I checked Ancestry's Soldier's Effects and there is no 4947 Ford(e), Lancashire Fusiliers.

Sorry, Shampers but there appears to be no military or newspaper record to indicate what happened to your ancestor.

I can't thank you guys enough. I stumbled on this site just doing google searches and wasn't expecting much of a response let alone what you've found and also taught me very quickly about searching for war records, as it's always been an area I've struggled with as the info just seems to be random and in multiple different places.

I've one last question from all the above info. If he had No 110 on joining then why did he get changed to No 4927? He was in the Lancashire Fusiliers the whole time it would seem.

shampers wrote: I've one last question from all the above info. If he had No 110 on joining then why did he get changed to No 4927? He was in the Lancashire Fusiliers the whole time it would seem.

No. 110 comes form the 3rd battalion - a militia unit. The militia were part time soldiers, like today's Army Reserve (formerly Territorial Army). They had a separate numbers from the regular battalions. When a man left the militia and joined the regular Army he was given a new number. Army numbering is a whole other thread.