Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC:

White flag incidents? 1 month 5 days ago #94703

  • Rob D
  • Rob D's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 834
  • Thank you received: 767
I thought I'd invite a discussion on "white flag" incidents. This came up prominently in a recent thread www.angloboerwar.com/forum/19-ephemera/3...dence?start=30#94702
but I don't want to hijack that thread. It seems to me both sides frequently accused each other of mis-use of the white flag.
General Buller, in his address to his men at Springfield on 12 Jan 1900, said:
"We shall be stoutly opposed by a clever unscrupulous enemy; let no man allow himself to be deceived by them. If a white flag is displayed it means nothing, unless the force who display it halt, throw down their arms, and throw up their hands. If they get a chance the enemy will try and mislead us by false words of command and false bugle calls; everyone must guard against being deceived by such conduct."
Davitt, in "The Boer Fight for Freedom" wrote of the battle of Spioenkop on 24 January: "It was resolved that no more attention would be given to British white flags or emblems of surrender..."

I have my own theories, but I'd appreciate comments from the forum!
Rob
The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

White flag incidents? 1 month 5 days ago #94708

  • EFV
  • EFV's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 155
  • Thank you received: 342
Below two original drawings by H.M. Paget “A Shabby Trick” which were, if I understand it correctly from the scribbles at the back, to be reproduced in the Graphic (?) of March 17, 1900. Perhaps someone has the magazine concerned describing the events that led to Mr. Paget’s drawings?



Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ians1900, Neville_C

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

White flag incidents? 1 month 4 days ago #94712

  • Dave F
  • Dave F's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 1384
  • Thank you received: 1175
Alfred Arthur Greenwood Hales - Australian war correspondent.

Hales wrote a book on his experiences, Campaign Pictures of War in South Africa, (1900), and in the following year his first novel, Driscoll, King of Scouts was published

This is what "Smiler" Hales had to say on the subject.

Few things have astonished me more during the progress of this war than the number of charges levelled against our foes in reference to the treacherous use of the white flag. Almost every newspaper that came my way contained some such account; yet, though constantly at the front for nine months, I cannot recall one solitary instance of such treachery which I could vouch for. I have heard of dozens of cases, and have taken the trouble to investigate a good many, but never once managed to obtain sufficient proof to satisfy me that the charge was genuine. On one occasion I was following close on the heels of our advancing troops, and had for a comrade a rather excitable correspondent. When within about fourteen hundred yards of the kopjes we were advancing to attack, the Boers opened a heavy rifle fire; and, though we could not see a solitary enemy, our fellows began to drop. It was very evident that the enemy were secreted in the rocks not far from a substantial farmhouse, from the roof of which floated a large white flag (it turned out later to be a tablecloth braced to a broom handle).
"There's another case of white flag treachery," shouted my companion. "I wonder the general don't turn the guns on that farm and blow it to Hades."
"What for?" I asked.
"What for! Why, they are flying the white flag, and shooting from the farmhouse. Isn't that enough?"
"Quite enough, if true," I replied. "But how the devil do you know they are shooting from the farmhouse?"
"They must be shooting from the farmhouse," he yelled. "Why, I've been scouring all the rocks around with my glasses, and can't see a blessed Boer in any of 'em. No, sir, you can bet your soul they are skulking in that farm. They know we won't loose a shell on the white flag---the cowards!"
I did not think it worth while to argue with a man of that stamp, but kept my glasses on that farm very closely during the fight that followed. Right up to the time when our men rushed the kopjes and surrounded the farmhouse I did not see a man enter or leave the house, and when I rode up I found that two women and three children were in possession. Furthermore, on examination, I soon discovered that, as the doors and windows faced the wrong way, it would have been impossible for a Boer to do much shooting at our men, unless the walls at the gable end were loopholed, which they were not, I know, for I examined them minutely. Fortunately for the credit of the British Army, most of our generals are coolheaded men who do not allow the irresponsible chatter of the army to influence them. Otherwise our guns would have been trained upon many a homestead on charges quite as flimsy and groundless as the one quoted above.
I suppose that cases of treachery have really occurred during the war. In a mixed crowd like that which composes the burgher army, there are sure to be some mortals fit to do any mean trick, just as sure as there are men fit to do or say anything in the British Army, But I cannot, and I will not, believe that the great bulk of these men are such paltry cowards as to make the "white flag" act a common one. It may be news to British readers to know that the burghers complain of the behaviour of our troops as bitterly as we complain of theirs; and I think, from personal observation, that their charges are as groundless as are some charges made by the same class of hysterical individuals, though of different nationality. Their pet hatred, when I was a prisoner in their hands, was the Lancers. They used to swear that the Lancers never spared a wounded man, but ran him through as they galloped past him. I was told this fifty times, and each time told my informant flatly that I declined to believe the assertion, and should continue to disbelieve it until I had undeniable proof, for it would take a good deal to convince me that a British soldier would strike a fallen foe even in the heat and stress of battle. One day they asked me to come and look at the dead body of one of their field cornets, whom they alleged to have been done to death whilst wounded by our Lancers. I went and saw the man, and at a glance saw that the wounds were not lance wounds at all, but ripping bullet wounds. He had been sniped by some Australian riflemen from a high kopje whilst in a valley. I tried to explain this to the excited burghers, but they only sneered at me for my trouble, until one of their own doctors coming along had a look at the corpse, and promptly verified my statements. That calmed them considerably, and they looked at the thing in cooler blood, and soon saw that it was really absurd to put the blame of the man's death on the shoulders of the Lancers, though they stoutly maintained that our cavalry were at times guilty of such monstrous conduct. I have often heard them solemnly swear never to give a Lancer a chance to surrender if they once got him within rifle range.
Personally, I could never see just what the Boers would gain by the white flag business. As a rule, our troops did not want coaxing into rifle range; they marched within hitting distance readily enough, and did not require a white flag to lure them into a tight place, so that the object to be gained by the enemy by such disgraceful tactics never seemed to me to be too apparent. If they had ever by such means been able to entrap an army, or to bring about the wholesale slaughter of our men, I could understand things a bit better; but they had little to gain and an awful lot to lose by such tactics. There is no slight risk attached to the act of firing on an advancing army treacherously under cover of the white flag. Such a deed rouses all the slumbering devil in the men, and the foe found guilty of such a deed would get more bayonet than he would find conducive to his health when it came to his turn to be beaten.


In my humble opinion for what it is worth, during any conflict past or present, mankind are driven to use desperate measures. Desperate men at arms, can and will be drawn to the use of underhanded tactics. There must have been at least one or maybe two Obidiah Hakeswill's on both sides of the Anglo Boer War surely?
 
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
Best regards,
Dave
The following user(s) said Thank You: EFV, Ians1900, Rob D, Moranthorse1, Smethwick, Sturgy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

White flag incidents? 1 month 4 days ago #94713

  • Rob D
  • Rob D's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 834
  • Thank you received: 767
Dave, that’s a very illuminating passage.
All the white flag incidents I know the details of had things in common, the most important being the genuine desire of a group of men to stop fighting (rather than to trap the enemy). The vast size of these battlefields has to be walked over to be understood. The group involved were invariably separated from their comrades - often by considerable distance - and they obviously felt abandoned, being without leadership and out of sight or communication. So the other men on their side had no sight or knowledge of any white flag and continued fighting.
The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dave F

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

White flag incidents? 1 month 4 days ago #94714

  • Smethwick
  • Smethwick's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 741
  • Thank you received: 820
There is no doubt that the British Newspapers helped magnify the issue of alleged abuse of the White Flag:



As I was already focused on November 1901 I have analysed the 161 mentions for that – these arose from 136 articles, 40 of which were nothing to do with the ABW (although 2 were related to earlier wars). My rough & ready analysis of the 96 remaining articles is:

34 (35.4%) were general articles about the war in which the alleged atrocities committed by the Boers were mentioned in a non-specific manner, thus pouring fuel on the fire.

25 (26.0%) were articles about the war in which the legitimate use of the white flag by both sides was mentioned.

19 (19.8%) were articles about the alleged murder of Captain Miers (see below for further details)

15 (15.6%) were articles mentioning other specific incidents of alleged abuse of the white flag. These were nearly all in letters home by soldiers. 13 were obviously second hand accounts and only 2 possibly witnessed the white flag in question.

3 (1.5%) were adverts which seemed to have been partially inspired the use of the white flag in the ABW.

Of course the newspapers were sent out to soldiers in SA and eagerly consumed by them. I suspect all returning soldiers had a story or two to tell about Boer atrocities but very few had actually witnessed them.

Thus, I am in agreement with Dave F’s expressed sentiment above.

The headlines to the articles regarding the 25th September 1901 death of (acting) Captain Roland Hill McDonald Miers usually contained the word “Murder”. Mildred Dooner in “The Last Post” gives the following account of the officer:

He was murdered at Riversdraai September 25th, 1901, by a party of three Boers who approached his outpost carrying a white flag. He was the second son of Lieutenant Colonel Capel H Miers, of the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, of Wingneld House, Stoke, Devonport. He was born at Edinburgh, April 1876, educated at the Oratory School, Edgbaston, and entered the Somersetshire Light Infantry from the 3rd Battalion in December 1896, being promoted Lieutenant May 1899. He was a good athlete, and won the Officers' Army Championship middle-weight boxing in 1898 and 1899, and also Sandow's gold medal for physical development. Lieutenant Miers was appointed to the South African Constabulary, December 1900. In January 1901, he raised the Utrecht Mounted Police, and was wounded February 5th, but soon recovered. An interesting account of how this officer was murdered appeared in the Times, November 9th, 1901. He appears to have ridden out to meet three Boers, who had been signalling with a white flag, conveying the idea that they wished to surrender. Lieutenant Miers on approaching them was barbarously shot dead. A non-commissioned officer, who suspected that foul play had taken place, rode out to search for Lieutenant Miers, and found him lying dead with his faithful dog beside him. His murderer, a man named Solomon Van Aan, was afterwards tried, found guilty, and shot at Heidelberg in June 1902. By the irony of fate, the firing party consisted of some of Lieutenant Mier's own regiment. When killed, Lieutenant Miers was holding the temporary rank of Captain in the South African Constabulary.

According to Elmarie his alleged murderer was actually called Salmon Van As, and I do need to point out that at his trial he was not allowed to call any witnesses. A few years later his father received a letter of apology from the British admitting that the court case was irregular and thus he had not received a fair trial, compensation was offered to the family but they refused.

See 2018 post by Elmarie for further details:

www.angloboerwar.com/forum/2-introductio...-salmon-van-as#58759
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ians1900, azyeoman, Dave F, Moranthorse1, Sturgy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

White flag incidents? 1 month 4 days ago #94715

  • Rob D
  • Rob D's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 834
  • Thank you received: 767
Great analysis, Smethwick; your graph shows mentions were high almost immediately after the war began. I would expect a similar graph for mention of dum-dums or expanding bullets.
A good (2016) account of the van As incident can be found here:
samilitaryhistory.org/vol171rs.html
Rob
The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Smethwick

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: djb
Time to create page: 1.138 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum