TOPIC:

hello all,
my name is tim donnelly and i am in the united states. my great grandfather served in the boer war.his name is william saunders and was a colour sergeant in the rifle brigade. he was killed in the defense of ladysmith. i have his qsa medal as well another medal, khartoum. the questions i have about him/the medals are:
1)where can i find/get replacement ribbons for the medals?
2)his only living descendants that we know of are my mom and her sister (my aunt). they don't know much about him and i am trying to find records of him online. i was hoping that maybe his military record would be of help for his date of birth and where etc etc. the family story goes that his then pregnant wife was in transit to see him in south africa or meet him on leave somewhere in africa. when word of his death reached her she made different plans and went to the united states instead. thanks in advance for any/all help in finding more about my great grandfather.

tim

Hello Tim......

Here is some information from Find My Past.......

Mike


First name(s) - W J

Last name - Saunders

Service number(s) - 993

Rank - Colour-Sergeant

Regiment - The Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Notes

The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Defence of Ladysmith

Memorials

Disappeared. Cathedral. Plaques Rifle Brigade. Winchester, HAMPSHIRE, England

Casualty units

The Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Casualty details

Killed on 11 December 1899 at Surprise Hill (Official casualty roll location:
Ladysmith)

Casualty notes - Casualty source
Natal Field Force. JB Hayward & Sons

Gazzetteer

[2828: 2830-2945 not named] a hill in Natal Colony (Klip River district; KwaZulu-Natal), six kilometres north of central Ladysmith. Variant: Vaalkop (used by Breytenbach II). During the investment of Ladysmith*, the hill was first occupied by burghers from the Heilbron commando under acting Cmdt C.R. de Wet. It became known as Surprise Hill from 10 December 1899 when a 120 mm Krupp howitzer located there was attacked by a force commanded by Lt-Col C.T.E. Metcalfe and comprising five companies of the 2nd The Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consort's Own) and a detachment of Royal Engineers. After heavy fighting with burghers from the Pretoria commando, the gun was destroyed and the force withdrew with the loss of 17 killed, 3 dying later of wounds, 38 wounded and 6 missing. Boer losses were two killed, two fatally wounded, five wounded and three missing. The Boer howitzer was replaced with another on 20 December. HMG II pp.548-549 (map no.43); Times II pp.169-172 (map facing p.216); Breytenbach I p.307, II pp.443-449 (map facing p.456).

Country - Great Britain

Record set - Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902

Category - Military, armed forces & conflict

Record collection - Boer Wars

Collections from Great Britain

Tim
You have some interesting medals awarded to your GGF. You mention that you have his QSA plus another you describe as "Khartoum". What exactly is it? The 2nd Bn, RB were involved in the Sudan and some were awarded the clasp for "Omdurman" on their Khedive's medal. Could that be it? If so, your GGF would also be entitled to the Queen's Sudan medal.
New ribbons are easily available from several on-line vendors. If you have the original ribbons and they are not serviceable you should keep them with the medals in a little plastic bag.
The action at Surprise Hill (as described by Mike) is one of two raids made by the Ladysmith garrison against the besiegers. The other was the attack on Gun Hill. The raid on Surprise Hill has been described in several published works; Stirling's "Our Regiments in South Africa" is one of them.
Good luck with the rest of your search - and TREASURE THOSE MEDALS!
Regards
IL.

hello all,
thanks to all that have helped me gather more information on GGF.

Linneyl- yes it is a Khedive medal with the Kharoum clasp only on it. i don't know what Bn he was in so i can't confirm if he was in the second Bn or not.
according to the info from qsamike it was the 2nd bn that fought on surprise hill. so stupid question time- if i find he was in that battle and is entitled to a queens sudan medal is there a way to get a replacement medal for him or is the best bet just to purchase one online?

both of the medals i have are single clasp. the khedive is for Khartoum and the QSA is for defence of ladysmith where he was killed. the khedive medal is unnamed but the QSA medal has his name on the rim of the medal.

im also still trying to find a birthdate for him. i figure the easiest way now is to use ancestry.com.uk does anyone know of a free site or should i just wait for a free trial offer from ancestry?

thanks again for the information

tim

Tim
Some who have a missing medal in a group/pair simply represent it by a strip of appropriate ribbon; the same length as the other medal/s. If you want a replica Queens Sudan medal to mount in the group, I am sure I have seen them occasionally on a certain favourite on-line bidding site (with which I have no arrangement other than the occasional bid).
I have seen Khedive's Sudan unnamed so I would not worry about that.
Regarding further research on your GGF, the "free trial" sounds the go.
Good luck with your quest; take it as far as you can as it is a tribute to man who did more than his bit in an iconic ABW action.
IL.

Hi Tim
you could perhaps send a research enquiry to the Royal Green Jackets (Rifles) Museum - see this site www.rgjmuseum.co.uk/research.asp . They indicate that they have quite a bit on officers and less information on members of the Brigade, but you may be lucky. Free sites for births, deaths, marriages are www.familysearch.org (also has census ...the 1891 one may be helpful) and www.freebmd.org.uk . However with only his names you will find it hard to identify which record is his. Do you know your Gt Grandmother's name? .... including that in a marriage search might help narrow down the possibilities. Best wishes with your research .. Liz